Re: [flasah] Casing Bubbles
Hi,
I know I'm not the expert that you guys are, but in my limited experience,
thin leather WILL stretch if it's not backed. Now I know GB's daddy didn't
do that, and maybe it didn't stretch for him, but it does for me. I know,
I know, I will probably get blasted for saying that because I'm not a
"pro", but that's my experience I've had so far. I haven't done anything
on leather more than 4/5 oz, so I can't speak for the thicker leather.
Diannb
At 02:08 PM 9/11/2009 -0700, you wrote:
> Greg, Yes that is what I do.
>The rest of the area to be tooled is essentially still being cased until I
>open the next section. to allow the leather to breath so to speak.
>I may be all wet here (pun intended) but I think the important point is to
>recognize that the difference between casing and just wetting and going to
>work, is illustrated by your description of the cells needing the
>opportunity to "plump". I don't know if that really happens or not but it
>doesn't really matter.....it' achieve a saturation level THAT CAN BE
>TOOLED. Holding the leather in that moist environment allows for that
>"plumping" you describe. If we don't achieve that we are just wetting the
>leather! Again I'm not saying it happens all the time....it
>depends on the pattern being tooled. I have a belt pattern that I do that
>is very intricate and the lining I use on it is considerably thicker than
>the tooled leather it is backing. You can't see that when I'm finished of
>course....but to tool that pattern on thick leather would look terrible.
>The size of the pattern being tooled makes a difference, but here is the
>thing that a lot of people don't understand. A small delicate pattern
>can't be tooled to it's maximum effectiveness on thick leather. The
>opposite is also true....you can't make a large pattern look as good on
>leather that is too thin. So the intricacy of the pattern can dictate the
>thickness of the leather. It has to do with being able to achieve the
>maximum amount of compression without destoying the fibers in the
>leather. When I shade or bevel I want to be able to "ground out" with my
>tools. doing an intricate pattern on heavy leather is akin to tooling on a
>sponge, LOL. So what I am suggesting is that if you are tooling a full
>floral pattern and are using the appropriate thickness of leather in order
>to achieve the maximum effectiveness in the tooling.....
>probably stretch! What's the point of this
>digression?
>LOL!! I'm worn out.....LOL.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: GB To:
>flasah@yahoogroups.
>Subject: Re: [flasah] Casing Bubbles
> Sounds good Bob... lets discuss it further to
>make sure everyone knows what we are each describing..
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> I would still suggest that anyone that does have a problem with
>' stretching ' their leather is working it too wet and / or
>choosing the wrong stamps for the situation.
>
>I did not say there was no way to preserve the casing for that
>many hours... my definition of cased being that the all the cells
>in the leather were allowed to become Evenly wet.
>
>So with that definition AND my desire not to ReWet the suface....
>the application of moisture from the backside can in fact preserve
>the ' casing'... not the actual water extant during the covered
>period of time.... but the effect can be WiTHOUT adding water to the
> surface by spritzing from the backside.... and with a little practice
> one can anticipate the rate of needed additional water...
>
>As a note to potential peanut gallery typists..... if your leather
>developes a dry area on the surface you must put water on that
>area to keep from having a ' drying line' ..... this is not what
>we are talking about with regards to avoiding re plumping of the
>cells in the project after stamping impressions have been applied.
>
>The idea on a graph of the moisture content means that the amount
>of moisture curve always either stays level or goes down towards
>dry... never is there a blip going back up which would be the
>indicator of moisture which would be reabsorbed into the cells at
>the top layer and cause the decrese in crispness we work so hard
>to get in the first place.
>
>I forgot to address the ' practice piece' mentioned in the last
>post....
> have a piece of leather which was cased at the same time as your
>project and use it to test for proper moisture content...
> project.... with stamps.... the angle you are going to hold the
>veiner and the amount you are going to move it with each hit can
>really be helped by a practice piece close by....
>
>Ever since you described your wetting process I have been thinking
>about whether there is one way which might be better than the
>other....and why...
> before taking out the leather... if submerged...
>
> In trying to figure out if physics favored one method over the
>other.... here is what I think.
>
>Since there is going to be a drying process for all these
>situations.
>allow them to evenly plump up before the drying process begins.
>
>Holding the leather under the water just until the bubbles stop is
>not the same as soaking the leather... as evidenced by the
>immediate change in the surface color soon after withdrawal from
>the water....
>
> There has to be ' excess' or ' free water' available for plant
>roots to drink.
>
>I think that leaving the leather under water only until the
>bubbles stop is a self limiting (not soaking ) indicator which
>also makes sure that the open areas between the cells has enough free
> water for the cells to be able to take it in and produce the desired
> result of even resistance and ability to hold an impression.
>
>Gregory B. Moody
>Daddysrulesleather
>DRules999 on youtube soon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Bob Park <hidepounder@
>
><hidepounder@
>Subject: Re: [flasah] Casing
>To: flasah@yahoogroups.
>Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:10 AM
>
> Greg,
>Forgive me for piggybacking on your response here, but there is
>a technique to deal with adding moisture here that probably
>should be repeated. As you pointed out, the use of backing
>prohibits the addition of moisture through the back of the
>leather which is what we all used to do. However casing can still be
> maintained while using a backing by tooling in sections and keeping
> the untooled areas sealed in plastic wrap.
>And as you stated there is no way to preserve casing in that
>amount of time. I am able to preserve the casing, however,
>without addiing moisture by breaking the tooling down in small
>sections that I can complete quickly. Each time I complete a section I
> uncover the next section and start out on freshly cased leather.
>Doing this takes a little thinking ahead and the plastic wrap
>can be a nuisance, however the benefit of controlling the
>stretch outweighs the nuisance factor for me. I might add also,
>that if in the course of handling and setting the piece up it
>dries a little, I will add moisture with a spray bottle before
>covering the untooled area with the plastic wrap. In essence,
>using the plastic wrap just extends the casing process. I point
>this out because using this technique takes away the time factor
>for anyone...whether they are a slow tooler (as I am) or not.
> Soaked is soaked! Then when he takes the
>leather out it is just drying normally. The trick is to achieve
>the maximum saturation at a level that is toolable and holding
>it there. It sounds more difficult than it is.
> Hope this helps..... (thanks for the piggyback,
> Greg!) Bobby
> ----- Original Message
>----- From: GB To:
>flasah@yahoogroups
>Friday, September 11, 2009 7:54 AM Subject: RE:
>[flasah] Casing
>
> "Once it does, from this point on the drying
>process seems to shift into
>high gear and it almost always dries quicker than I can
>finish the
>tooling. I always wind up having to add moisture to
>finish."--Dale
>
>Dale, You do not have a problem and you are not working
>too slow.
>As has been mentioned ... the moisture in the air and
>the temperature and movement of the air in the room
>affect the drying rate of the project.
> Put a fan on it if you need to for that ' looong '
>initial stage out of the case.
>
> I have mentioned this with respect to the discussion
>about not gluing things to the back of your project...
>that shoots people in the foot right from the start
>because it takes away the option of spritzing from the BACK
> SIDE...
>
> Reread Bob Park's fine statement on the process if you
>do not believe me and the others who have been saying
>that rewetting the top side once stamping is started
>takes away crispness of the impressions. ... some do not care
> or believe me when I say that... but the physics are obvious
> to others.
>
>If things worked out that I hit the exact moisture
>content for not adding any water to a billfold back I
>figured everything had gone just right...
>but even with my speed at that time.... if I got a phone
>call or someone cut their finger and I had to go deal
>with that... simply spritzing took away the problem.
> My father carved many full sides... there is no way
>anyone , even trying to keep the unworked section
>covered could do those large projects without having to
>rewet...and he knew he did not want to rewet the TOP
>SIDE... so he anticipated the water flow from the bottom
>and spritzed regularly... many of his pictures took
>10-14 hours at one sitting. He did not stop for meals... mom
> brought sandwiches and coffee....and of course he had nicotine
> to keep him going.
> Gregory B. Moody
>
>--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Wolvenstien <> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Not to beat a dead horse with this subject after the
>past furious
>discussion, but I'm just wondering if I'm doing
>something wrong. It
>seems that no matter which method I use to wet the
>leather (sponge,
>submersing, even waiting for all the bubbles to stop)
>I'm having this
>problem. Maybe it's just that I'm too slow, bit I don't
> think so.
>After unwrapping my leather the next day, it usually
>takes a looooong
>time for the natural color of the leather to return to
>the grain side.
>Once it does, from this point on the drying process
>seems to shift into
>high gear and it almost always dries quicker than I can
> finish the
>tooling. I always wind up having to add moisture to
>finish.
>
>--
>Dale Erwin
>Av. Circunvalació n CEC-2
>Los Girasoles de Huampaní
>Lurigancho, Lima 15, PERU
>http://www.casaerwi n.org
>
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